Buying or trading with other collectors

We have all done it at one time or another. Not all of our finds were from a flea market or yard sales. The most reasonably priced finds undoubtedly are the flea market or yard sale variety, but there comes a time when we need to fill a gap and have to look to other collectors to fill that need. 

When that happens, where do you go? Most advanced collectors are well organized and known to others as having a variety of a certain type of collection. Others are a hodge podge of just about everything.

Then there are those who trade and deal regularly and will provide what you are looking for "for a price" With this type of collector, you can count on paying top dollar, but you will get what you are looking for.

Trading is sometimes the best answer and is done frequently among advanced collectors. Museums seldom engage in trading except with another museum

Tips for young or new instrument collectors

You have just found grandpas horn in the attic or bought a strange looking instrument at a flea market or yard sale.

YOU ARE HOOKED! That is how most of us started and some of us cant stop!

After you have asked the first three questions, what is it? can it be fixed? and how much is it worth? you can settle down and seriously consider whether collecting is for you. First you need to consider a few things that will help you along the way.

Your collection should be aimed in a given direction. Consider what area you want to collect in. Brasses come in many different sizes and categories

Keyless brasses (bugles)
Keyed brasses (bugles and ophicleides)
Brasses with slides
Brasses with valves
Various valve systems
Different tubing configurations
Various makers

Some areas are inexpensive and some can be very expensive, almost prohibitive and impossible to find.

Source materials are available in libraries and you will find other collectors will help you along the way. Good sources are Langwells index and the works of Dr. Herbert Heyde. Also helpful are the papers of Robert Eliason and the Brass band journal.

We will help you if we can and I would also suggest visiting Kenton Scotts website Horn-u-copia.net

Is it really what you think it is?

 

Like most collectors of antique horns, I have been guilty of not doing my homework on identifying exactly what kind of horn, valve type, maker, etc I have. The sources for this kind of identification are there, but often the novice collector does not know where to look Two good starting points are Langwills Index and Heydes works. Other sources are Eliasons works and other collectors in different countries.

I had been making this mistake for years, until just recently, I made the acquaintance of German collector Udo Koehne. Udo has a very interesting and a good sized collection of brass instruments. In addition, Udo is a professional brass musician (trumpet) in a Bonn Germany orchestra, so when he talks about brass instruments and valve systems, you can learn a lot.

I had been in error for years in identifying one of my horns as having Vienna Valves. Udo informed me that the instrument was in fact known as “Neumainzer” and had what was known as “Klinkerdrucker” and explained that was the reason the Graves/Boston horn on Ebay sold for over $14000.

Udo was kind enough to share this information and even told me where to look to find examples of this type of valve. Just another example of how important it is to the novice collector to contact the right sources and persons for information. Thanks Udo!

Collectors I have known

There are two schools of thought here and one most collectors have pondered at one time or another. The most difficult decision for me was when I had to decide what to do with my box valve cornet. I acquired it in 1970 at an antique shop in Illinois and since it looked so strange, I wanted to research box valves. I soon discovered that box valves are the rarest kind of valves and finding an instrument in a collection was almost impossible. In the early 1970s while visiting Germany, I found two instruments at a museum in Nuremberg that were made by the inventor of the box valve, Schuster, in the 1820s. From the U.S. Patent office, I acquired a copy of the Quimbey patent for horns they intend to make in the 1870, but in searching for box valved horns I discovered that there were very few in existence. One in a Museum in Rhineland Germany and another at the Shrine to Music in Vermilion S.D.

Since my instrument was incomplete (missing the lead pipe, one valve slide and one square valve mechanism, I had nothing to go on in completing the restoration. Finally, Byron Autrey attempted to recreate the missing 1st valve mechanism and was quite successful, but would not attempt further restoration as he had nothing to use as a model. Bob Pallansch in Virginia also would not attempt it for the same reason

I have finally given up my quest for restoration and I believe there are probably no more than ten existing horns with box (square) valves in collections today. So, this mission is unaccomplished unless there is someone out there with another example of a horn with box valves. The valve was invented by Schuster in the early 1820s and Quimbey was the last to market a successful horn. The box valve seems to have died a quiet death in 1870, never to be heard from again. Just another dilemma for a horn collector desiring a restoration.

Collecting Antique Horns

Back about 40 years ago when I began collecting horns, I got a bit of good advice from another collector who was downsizing his very large collection to specialize in Civil War instruments and bands. He cautioned me to aim at a certain field of collecting and to concentrate on that field, otherwise I would end up with an attic full of instruments that wouldn’t tell any kind of story.

I decided that since I live in an area of Wisconsin that was heavily settled by Germans and Irish from 1820 to 1900, I would collect instruments of that origin. In addition, I decided to tell the story of the development of different valve systems.

This has worked to my advantage and I would highly recommend that young collectors follow this path. Joining the 1st Brigade Band helped me to develop relationships with persons of a like mind and interests.

It has been a wonderful journey in that I met many fine and talented people. I also visited many historic places and learned more about the history of brass instruments than I could have at some of the finest universities in the land.

I look forward to continuing this relationship with persons like myself who absolutely love music history.

Collecting Antique Horns

Back about 40 years ago when I began collecting horns, I got a bit of good advice from another collector who was downsizing his very large collection to specialize in Civil War instruments and bands. He cautioned me to aim at a certain field of collecting and to concentrate on that field, otherwise I would end up with an attic full of instruments that wouldn’t tell any kind of story.